Quote from aaltomar :

...I remember you saying something along the lines that there are still a lot of XP users and we can't go forward because of this

No, there's no way I would have said that because it doesn't make any sense.

We just recently moved from DX8.1 to DX9 so that we CAN move forward graphically. It's now up to me to program vertex and pixel shaders and work them into our systems. We have already done some of that and there's a lot more to come.

Just a reminder to anyone, moving to later versions if DirectX never changes anything immediately, they just allow you to access some more features of the graphics card. The biggest step relevant to LFS is DX8.1 to DX9 as it allows the use of pixel and vertex shaders using the HLSL language. This is gradually affecting LFS as we go forward.

It allowed the higher frame rates with many cars on screen (although the look was not changed, yet). It allowed the 3D anaglyph mode (which is not very useful really but interesting) and allowed me to program chromatic aberration correction on the Oculus Rift. It also allowed me to write the new hidden object removal system which is far better than the old one and your next patch should not have objects popping up randomly and not being visible when they should be.

OT: The Rift, by the way, caused us to look very closely at the graphics (because the pixels are a bit big in there) and we removed loads of the "alpha test" textures that made trees (and many other things) look blocky and ugly. LFS graphics came along a long way for 0.6G but many people have already forgotten that and claim the Rift doesn't benefit most people.

So... DX9 is a thing that helps us to go forward. It is not holding us back in any way.

Quote from aaltomar :

Quote Scawen:
"Not a possibilty because LFS must still work on XP and I will not budge on this point. Millions of people use XP and it's a perfectly good operating system, still the best in many ways. I don't have to be part of Microsoft's efforts to move everyone off it. They are only doing that to try and screw more money out of existing customers."

So maybe I read to much into this I guess. And sorry for the off topic, going to bed now

Yes, there is nothing in that post to say we are being held back by retaining compatibility with XP and Linux (using Wine).

Note, you said yourself that 4% of people still use XP. All I have said from the beginning is there is NO REASON to make LFS unavailable to those people (and all Linux users). I'm not saying "it's a great pity that we still have to cater for these people". I'm saying, "it's absolutely no problem to let it run on XP because there is NO REASON to move onto later versions of DX".

Another thing I've said before is it is GREAT that LFS can work on older versions of Windows or even Linux. I am so happy about that because it defies corporate greed. LFS is one of the tiny things that opposes the insanity of modern capitalism. I can't stand sayings like "grow or die!" and "time is money!" which is the ridiculous propaganda of capitalism gone wrong. Everyone should slow down a bit and focus on quality rather than growth. LFS is part of that and I wish more people would be more patient. Some people are very patient, but others seem like total nutters!

DirectX is like a tool kit, allowing programs to use your hardware. There were many tools in DX8. DX9 got a load of brilliant higher tech tools which were easier to use. DX10 got a couple of extra tools but lost the ability to work with older computers.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

is the eta still a few weeks?

Yes but my head is spinning a little. I'll need to get my notes together on Monday and see what needs to be done. I plan to first release a compatible test patch with the new hidden object detection files and open path switching system for the existing tracks, as soon as possible, with Westhill into testing not long after. That's the general idea.

Hello Racers,

We have been continuing to work hard on the new Westhill. As many of you know, we have gone to a new level with the new track. There is a new National configuration and an International configuration which is similar to the old Westhill. Eric has made the scenery highly detailed and driveable, which makes the open configurations a lot of fun.

The high level of detail resulted in some loss of frame rate, specially in open configs, so we have worked on a new system where open configs can use 'paths' (and change between paths as needed) so LFS knows where you are and what you can see from your location. This keeps the frame rate high by avoiding drawing too many objects. I worked on a new hidden object removal system which doesn't miss objects like the old system did. I plan to release updated hidden object files for the existing tracks.

In the last few days I made a new system that allows for higher detailed fences without increasing the number of objects. It is a flexible system that allows a repeating model to be placed along any of the 'segments' that are used for tracks and fences in LFS.

This has been used now to improve the appearance of some of the fences and barriers in the new Westhill and allowed the removal of some 'alpha test' textures (which do not work well with multisampling AA) because geometry can now be used for repeating supports. I was able to write some auto-repair code that saved Eric from having to manually edit thousands of fence segments.

Eric is finishing some models and has been filling some of the distant landscape scenery. I still have a few things to do left on my lists. After the weekend I'll need to examine my notes and get them together onto fewer sheets of paper and I'll know where I stand then. We are trying to get the release done as quickly as possible but with high quality.

We hope you enjoy these screen shots that show the new fence and barrier system.

Hi, just a quick message so you know we are still working hard on the update!

I took a few days just now to make a new system that allows for higher detailed fences without increasing the number of objects. It is a flexible system that allows a repeating model to be placed along any of the 'segments' that are used for tracks and fences in LFS.

This has been used now to improve the appearance of some of the fences and barriers in the new Westhill and allowed the removal of some alpha test textures, because geometry can now be used for repeating supports. I was able to write some auto-repair code that saved Eric from having to manually edit thousands of fence segments.

Eric is finishing some models and has been filling some of the distant landscape scenery. I still have a few things to do left on my lists. I'm not really sure how challenging some of them will be. After the weekend I'll need to examine my notes and get them together onto fewer sheets of paper and I'll know where I stand then.

Yes, we are still working on the Westhill updates. Eric sent me a test version with most of the new paths done. This brought up some more editor improvements I needed to do. I've been looking around the track. Eric is still finishing some things and fixing some issues. I've been trying to get the remaining things off my list. This stage seems to go on a while. Some things take longer than expected and other unexpected things come up. But it's all about making improvements to LFS so it's all good, apart from the wait.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Scawen, is there any chance of getting a high-res overhead of the new westhill prior to release? It'd be nice to be able to see the new layout, as well as the various sideroads.

I don't think we will release any more images before the test patch release.

It's best to just get the job done and get it into testing. Day off today but I'm back on tomorrow updating editor functions that help Eric and some other things I still have to do.

It's going well.

I completed the new "optimiser" which precomputes which objects are visible from any point on the path. It uses a higher resolution and a much better rendering method to correctly detect what is visible, so there is now very little popup of objects, holes in the road and so on. I plan to release updated object visibility files for the current tracks. Probably in a test patch before Westhill is ready.

I've just written a new thing for open configurations which can start on a path (instead of using no paths at all) and then switch between paths when you go off the edge of one and onto another. The result of this is higher frame rate on open configs, because it can use the optimiser. Also the echo map is available. Still need to do the lightmaps, so cars go darker when they are in shadowed places. This was really vital for the new Westhill as it has all the access roads which are fun to drive on, but the frame rate was too low without the use of the optimiser. Eric is creating dummy paths for the access roads, so they are not selectable as configurations but the paths are available for open configs.

So it's all going well. Obviously these things aren't done by magic and they take time, but we like working and we like what we are working on. So for us it looks good.

Thank you very much, translators, for your help today and recently. Most of them are updated. I have released one final Test Patch 0.6F12.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

For the few remaining translations which are still not updated, I think I will check again in the morning. Some updates today meant I could not get to the full version this evening. I will release one more test patch this evening.

Then, after 0.6G, let's take our time to consider new translators for some of those languages, where the original translators aren't active on LFS any more. There is the new patch coming in a few weeks so it doesn't matter if there are a few missing lines in some of the translations, for now. Thank you for your offers.

Hello Racers,

We plan to release full version 0.6G tomorrow.

Compared with 0.6F, it has Oculus Rift DK2 support and graphical improvements.

Releasing this will allow me to concentrate on the programming for the Westhill update.

You can test 0.6F11 on the Test Patch thread: www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

Some translations have not been updated and it would be great if they could be:

Japanese, Estonian, Hungarian, Serbian, Swedish, Dansk, Turkish,
Catalan, Castellano, Romanian, Norsk, Galego, Suomi, Slovenski

Thanks, Scawen

Test Patch F11, now including French, Polski, Croatian.

For Rift users, this removes one thing that used to annoy me, when
I forget to put the Rift into extended mode before starting LFS.

If you try to enter 3D mode when the Rift is not in extended mode,
and get the message to restart LFS with the Rift in extended mode,
it is now possible to go into a window (SHIFT+F4) and set your
Rift to extended mode then click 3D to try to enter Rift mode
again without exiting LFS, so avoiding one exit and restart.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

Quote from Matrixi :

Is the new .DLL using display overdrive for reduced black smearing or any other changes with it? Atleast it seemed a bit better.

I have not implemented overdrive, which seems for Direct mode only. You can search for "overdrive" on this page:
https://developer.oculusvr.com/?action=hist&ver=21

Quote from Matrixi :

Also it would be really nice to have that persistent "Disable GUI" setting for maximum VR immersion. Having to peek through the nose gap on the Rift to find my shift+f keys every time I hop in to LFS is no fun!

At least you could assign /shift F to a wheel button?

I'm at the point now where I don't want to add more features for version G. I can only fix any serious issues. There is plenty more to be done for the Rift but in a later version. Now the aim is to get a DK2 version online so people don't need to install a test patch. Then I can carry on with some things that are needed for the Westhill update.

Quote from nacim :

I corrected somes mistakes in the french translation on this thread, can you look at all thoses errors and update the language for the next update ?

I really don't want to start editing the French translations myself. Apart from the errors you mentioned, there are 24 missing lines in this important language. There are 3 French translators marked as active - Oliv76000, sicotange and Tungsten - maybe you could send them a PM?

Just in case anyone doesn't know yet, the recent test patches are not purely for the Rift (though that has been the main focus). There is a significant graphical improvement in Test Patches F9/F10. It's most noticeable on the trees and also many other objects with transparency.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

Test Patch 0.6F10

Contains a new LFSORDLL.dll which uses the latest Oculus SDK 0.4.2
To use that you must update your Oculus runtime to 0.4.2
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

For anyone who already downloaded a patch with textures, you don't need the entire TEX version again. You can use the smaller test patch and just download these two updated textures and save them in your data\dds folder:
http://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=AST_trees_dds.zip

Quote from Flame CZE :

Is it normal that those textures of seats and spectators have aliased edges? They seem to be at Blackwood, Kyoto Ring, Fern Bay and Aston.

Tested with the F9_TEX patch.

Yes, they have not changed since the older versions. We can't simply change them from alpha test to alpha as there are serious sorting problems with seats and people if we do that. I need to write something that gives us control over the drawing order of triangles within an object, then we'll be able to do better grandstands in later releases of tracks.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

@scawen. i just noticed im still having the ATEST old files in my folder. these are just to be deleted right?

Yes. When you first run LFS, if it can't find the _ALP version of an ALPHA / ATEST / ALP24 texture, it creates a new copy of one of those, named _ALP. This auto-copying allows LFS to continue to use custom textures and doesn't require the already correctly named textures I supplied in the patch. But it doesn't delete the old version of the textures. This is to allow the possibility of rolling back to an old version of LFS.

When you are sure you will not roll back, you can delete any files ending ALPHA.dds / ATEST.dds / ALP24.dds

Thanks for your observations of the textures at Fern Bay. But Eric doesn't want to get involved with Fern Bay now as he is still working on Westhill. He just wants to do a big overhaul of Fern Bay at some time.

Really good, I think. Definitely a much later release than we expected but some of the things on my list for the Westhill patch moved into the Rift support patch. For example the new alpha system which allows much better looking trees and other objects with transparency, you can try out right now in Test Patch 0.6F9:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/86202

Eric has been continuing to work on Westhill and we want to get that into testing soon. I hope to release the new full version with Rift DK2 support next weekend, so that I can focus 100% on the additional support for the Westhill version.

So it looks like a few weeks. Strangely enough that is what we said when we first announced it. But on Eric's side, Westhill moved onto another level since that announcement and on my side, the DK2 support turned out to be a bigger deal than expected. All good though, apart from the later release.

Quote from Danas :

I Believe I've found a bug in the treeline behind the fences in aston. Seems like the alpha on the texture isnt working or applied?

Thank you, I confirm this bug at Aston. In fact I noticed that last night but didn't want to influence anyone's observations by mentioning it. It is reassuring that the only bug reported, is the one I already knew about!

Please do let us know if you see any other significant alpha or sorting issues related to the new alpha system.

Eric and I have also seen some small sorting issues where a branch of a tree can sort of pop in front of another nearby tree as you move to a different position, because we now use alpha instead of alpha test (and often, on trees, a two pass combination of both, known as Tree Edge Alpha or TEA). Nothing that really bothered us too much though, and is less bad than the actual distant object / track popup issues that have always been there due to failings in the "visible objects from current location" system which I am working on for the Westhill update.

So at the moment, the only known issue with this patch is that bug at Aston.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :

Trees indeed look much better now, good job!

But it looks like transmission towers suffer now, is it possible to apply same effect there?
Also I wouldn't mind to see actual lines, not just towers from distance.

Hmm, I don't really understand that. Are you sure it's using the same texture in both images? The pylons at Blackwood were already using plain ALPHA and still are, so shouldn't really change.

Maybe you can check your pylon2_ALP (F9) and pylon2ALPHA (F8) versions of that texture to see if they are the same? In my version (using the new re-exported texture) they seem to look quite good in the distance.

Quote from josemspain :

It would be so great if my LFS settings keeps equal than before updating the game.
I am a mouse player and all my mouse configuration get erased every time I update the game.
Is there a way to keep the settings?

I don't really know what this means. Which settings exactly disappear? Is this every time you install a test patch? I don't see any reason for that, but could have a look if you describe a simple case of how to reproduce the problem.

Last edited by Scawen, Fri 19 Sep 2014, 22:08.